Okay, time to whip out the woman card here and spell out a few thing you young gun toting men folk might actually be interested in. I’m sure y’all love my posts on potatoes and gardens, but hopefully today I’ll shed some light on a different aspect of survival.
So, it’s TEOTWAWKI, things have mostly stabilized into the new normal of decreased mobility and slower communication. You’ve got food and water and bullets and bandaids, but you’ve got offspring who are of marriageable age. Or you’ve sadly lost your partner to disease or violence and now find you can’t handle all the work on the doomstead without said partner. Let’s explore some of the options that might be available.
Friends of Friends – The good side of this route is you keep things in the community, and you’re more likely to have friends in common, and two good support structures in the same area. You’re more likely to know and trust the person. The bad part of this route is your options could be limited, if your area is sparsely populated. (Or populated largely with relatives)
Distant Relatives/Relatives by Marriage – Speaking of relatives, those that are related only by marriage, or far removed by blood, should certainly be considered. There are many cultures where a widow will be married by her deceased husband’s nearest willing relative. I dated a guy in college who’s parents had met at a large family reunion.
Arranged Marriages – I’m not talking about forced marriages, or illegal marriages, rather – matchmaking led by the parents. I lived for a time in India, and arranged marriages are still very much practiced. The couples I talked to said they had a say in the proceedings, and felt the other would be a solid match, so they married and grew to love one another. The families being already in agreement, meshed well and the new couple started their lives together on strong footing. The bad of course, is the forced marriages, arranged between minors, or whatever. Or marriages where one side is arranging things only for monetary gain and cons a prospective set of in-laws out of money or gifts.
Fishing – Find dances, or work projects or community service where you can interact with lots of people. People are always going to want to socialize, and there will be community ties that survive and work that will require groups of people. Celebrations, weddings, holidays, all present opportunities to meet a prospective partner.
Advice from Calamity – I’m going to be blunt here, women at our inner core, understand that men are stronger than us. This affects our instinctive reactions to men. I’m not saying we’re mentally weaker, or emotionally weaker, or any of that BS, I’m talking shear muscle power. This presents a problem when said men are trying to get us alone to discuss potential matchmaking. Honestly, if you aren’t my husband/father/son/friend you fall under the potential antagonist category and I’m not about to go anywhere alone with you. If you are trying to approach a woman, here are some things you can do to put her at ease and up your chances of getting past her guard.
Manners, yup, your momma taught them to you, maybe your daddy too. Use them. They become more than just social niceties. Manners will get you past the gun that’s likely pointed at you. 😀 Manners don’t mean you have to treat her like an invalid or an idiot, but if you refrain from interrupting her when she’s speaking, look her in the eye when you’re talking to her, keep your hands and posture in friendly positions you’ll likely get farther in the negotiations.
Open and honest expectations, be clear about what you are looking for. Don’t imply, don’t assume, don’t hedge around; use words that clearly spell out your intentions and expectations. This will help steer things away from misunderstandings. Are you looking for a love match and willing to take the time for that to blossom? Are you needing a surrogate mother for children and a partner for the harvest and thus on a tight schedule? Are you trying to find a partner for your child? Where will she live, what work will be expected, what’s the family situation (in-laws) she’ll be marrying into? Being clear in your intentions will also help you narrow your search to those that are more likely to say yes.
Ladies, most of the above applies equally to you, whether you’re trying to find a date for an evening or for something more long term. Love and companionship are worth a little risk, but keep your aim up to snuff, it can keep suitors well behaved.
What do you think? Will there still be dating columns in the newspapers? Or village matchmakers?
I don’t believe I’ve ever seen this topic covered before in my blog reading adventures.
I think even in an all out (and unlikely) mad max scenario there would still be matchmaking and dating. Even though everyone’s guard is at an extremely high level, eventually alliances would be formed between groups and you may see some dating between those groups.
Likely, if anything occurs we’ll just see some hard times (depression era or maybe worse). Dating in one form or another still continued throughout all the dark ages of our history or we wouldn’t be here discussing this today.
This could make for a really neat modern post-apocalyptic version of Romeo and Juliet. MZBs and MFPs instead of Capulet and Montague.
🙂 We do try to keep things interesting here at SHTF. 🙂
I agree, we’re much more likely to see a hard depression. But, since most people won’t be storing roses and choc in their preps, I though perhaps discussion on how to woo without that fall back, might be enjoyable and informative.
I expect a lot of post SHTF dating will be one of two flavors. IT will either be by necessity or caveman like. Dont know which will be more prevalent but They will both appear none the less.
caveman like… hmm… should I point you to the discussion of ethics from yesterday’s post? Because if you’re talking of a hit on the head and a drag to the cave, well there’s another name for that.
Lady preppers, this would be reason number 382 why you need to know self defense and how to disable an attacker and have practice with situational awareness. I’ll give Spook the benefit of doubt, I’m sure he wouldn’t engage in such barbarity, but it probably will see an uptick if law and order breaks down.
When I think of extremely primitive dating I think of similarities to the animal kingdom.
Posturing & gesturing, showing brightly colored areas to get attention.. I’m not sure what the male human would do. I guess we would have to resort to the “helicopter”.
If ever you need evidence that life goes on even if civilization doesn’t…
Just IMHO here…
The good news:
* The whole courtship thing, if it continues to exist, will be a refreshing break from the day-to-day chores, anxiety, and drudgework that survival post-SHTF would represent.
* Sex would also become less of a disposable recreational event that it is today, and become a way for two people to bond together (and yes, the whole reproduction thing may well take center stage again, what with things like birth control/abortion/etc likely no longer available).
* Ladies! The anorexic supermodel look will be out once and for all (from pre-history to the 1920’s or so, those love handles and muffin top were actually considered sexy, since it showed that the woman was well-off enough to eat on a daily basis, and was thus prosperous and fertile).
The bad news:
* Feminism is likely to die off when civilization does. As Ms. Calamity said, women are physically weaker, and shouting “I am woman, hear me roar!” will likely be returned with laughter. Men in turn will likely revert to one of two groups: gentlemen who have at least some sense of chivalry, and louts who consider women as playthings and/or chattel. Hell, you can divide men up this way even now with civilization in full swing.
* Things like spousal abuse and child molestation would go up – most abusive people (male or female) usually hold back by a fear of getting locked up. With little-to-no law enforcement, there’s little-to-no incentive to remain civilized. The abused will have an even more powerful incentive to not leave an abusive relationship (and it’s a pretty powerful hold now) – getting ejected means a real danger of starvation and loss. On the flip side, families of abuse victims will likely be more able and more interested in exacting revenge on an abuser, if such family lives nearby.
* A pretty woman will always have one desirable item that guys do not, no matter how well-prepped – no sense in spelling it out beyond that. This is an advantage. Nope, I don’t particularly mean direct prostitution, but I do mean that the promise of a bedding-down (be it implied , direct, or only theoretical in the guy’s mind) will give any passably attractive woman a distinct advantage in bartering or other interaction.
* Women can be disarming. Consider this – you’re a single/widowed guy. A refugee family came up to your door seeking shelter, and consisted of a couple and a 19-year-old handsome boy? Would you be as willing to assist them as you would a family whose only child was a 19-year-old beautiful girl? Psychologically, most guys would likely see the young man as a potential threat, but see the young lady as a potential mate. The family with the son would have two guys in it, making one wary, while the family with the daughter would get a lot more pity because that father has to care for two women, and would be seen as less of a threat.
Looking out to society at large…
Family would also take on a far different role. Child mortality would pretty much skyrocket back up again, so each kid that made it to the age of 6 would become more of a treasure, and less of a burden – as long as times are good enough that everyone eats. That 6-year-old kid will also become a helpmate and a laborer – not someone with constant leisure time as kids have today outside of school.
Families would cling very tightly together – no longer would you have a guy watching sports, the kid playing video games, and the woman off doing some hobby or other – without the mountain of distraction and the need to teach the kids, you’ll have a lot of family talking going on.
Adoption for infertile couples will become drop-easy to do… it’ll be as simple as taking in an orphan kid and (optionally) changing his or her last name.
There won’t be any talk anymore of a spouse leaving a relationship under the excuse of “I need to find myself”.
I think religion would regain the footing it once had as well within the family – prayer is a comfort, a journey, and a means of getting in touch with God and oneself. I can see families praying together again.
I suspect that things like gay marriage may not fade out quickly. Without surrogates, artificial insemination, sperm banks, etc? Gay couples will likely have only adoption as an option for children, and otherwise will likely ditch the trappings of marriage altogether. Not 100% sure about community tolerance for the thing, but I think most folks won’t give a damn as much and just leave ’em be.
Feminism will die out… hah! You wish! Nope, I don’t think so. Feminism has little to do with physical strength or stirring up fights over dominance. Feminism means equality. Women are not going to suddenly wake up interested in playing second fiddle to men. We’ve won the right to vote, and hold property (including property that can send well aimed lead at men looking for slaves.) SHTF is not going to change any of that unless some local thugs start trying to set up a theocracy. I’m certainly not going to be teaching my daughter/granddaughter to think of herself as less than anyone, male or female. Male strength of arm is only going to matter if they can make it past my perimeter without taking the aforementioned lead to the head.
I fear you’re right about the domestic violence though. Families will need to keep a much better eye on things like that if they don’t want their children/grandchildren to end up in that situation.
“There won’t be any talk anymore of a spouse leaving a relationship under the excuse of “I need to find myself”. ” I think migrant work, military duties, visits to distant relatives and things like that could provide ample opportunity for spouses to separate. I don’t think tougher times are going to make marital problems disappear. I think if anything, marriage might be more fluid, as fewer people can afford the govt license for the entering or leaving of a partnership, such things might go back to the handfasting/common law type arrangements, leaving the gov’t and it’s fees out of the loop entirely. It’s already happening to a certain extent, I’m in the midst of my friends partnering up and setting up house together, and about half of them have done the whole church/license thing, but equally half of them (including hubby and I) did common law/handfasting arrangements.
Dunno… while you are quite prepped and capable of independence *and* active defense of self and property, I can say with certainty that the vast majority of women are definitely not.
( I promise you though that I do not “wish” for equality to die – just saying that it probably will).
You’re right in that there will still be marital problems, though… just that the reasons will be (well, mostly) different.
“…Feminism will die out… hah! You wish! Nope, I don’t think so. Feminism has little to do with physical strength or stirring up fights over dominance. Feminism means equality…”
Actually, I think you are definitely wrong here, if my understanding of ‘feminism’ is the same as O-Q’s.
Feminism today does not mean ‘equality’ in any way, shape or form, and O-Q certainly isn’t opting for disallowing the right to vote, work or playing any kind of fiddle.
The kind of feminism O-Q is representing is true Womanhood, not the neo-woman who has created a feminized western male totally devoid of all manhood but pro-creating sperm.
He’s reinforcing the idea that women will get back to what women really are- not the window dressing high maintenance porcelain dolls of today who believe they are less than men and have to go out and prove it or argue that they aren’t.
What O-Q is stating is a Proverbs 31 Woman, not a 21st Century woman. And a proverbs 31 Woman is a Lady, which certainly can’t be said for most 21st Century women.
I just started reading this blog and I love it! There is just so much information here I don’t even know where to start. I love reading all of the comments. My hubs bought me a lovely revolver because I do have a great fear of the caveman and I mean in our modern time. It’s called rape.
Feminism will die out.
People will revert to natural traditional roles. The attitudes of the sexes today will die out with the P.C. culture that spawned it. All the female founders of the womans lib movement, from the sufferage movement of the 1919 voting rights campaign to the 70’s were bolchevik/marxists with an agenda to weaken and destroy Christondom and the men of the West. One does not need to see the “Eye of Sauron” to realise this.
And, no, Calamity Jane, Woman ARE NOT and NEVER HAVE BEEN equal to men. Regardless of what mainstream media espouses. Political Correctness is Cultural Marxism. See it for the lie it is. Estrogen is not “equal” to testosterone” and never can be. We are compliments to one another. The sexes are indespensable and cannot live without each other. The “War of the Sexes ” is nonsense in which both sexes lose and the Cultural Marxist/P.C. crowd wins.
Traditional roles are the natural extension of chemically produced bahaviors of Estrogen and Testosterone. See a man with low test.? Notice his behavior? See a woman with elevated testosterone levels? (the “change”) notice the behavioral changes in her. Without interfernce, the natural order of things will always rule.
“And, no, Calamity Jane, Woman ARE NOT and NEVER HAVE BEEN equal to men. … Estrogen is not “equal” to testosterone” and never can be. We are compliments to one another. The sexes are indespensable and cannot live without each other. ”
Wow, my immediate response to that is a couple of choice words, but since that’s not polite, I’ll point out the logical fallacies of your testosterone soaked screed. We are compliments to one another, but NOT equals? BS. Compliments, cannot live without one another; that means equal in my book. “The natural order of things,” if by that you mean subordinate women, let me tell you honey, it ain’t gonna happen. There are cultures that practice matriarchal rule, and there are cultures that practice patriarchal rule, there is no “natural order of things” that automatically places penis bearers higher on the totem pole. SHTF is not going to miraculously change the minds of million of women who rightfully think they deserve equality.
I did not imply nor state, “Submissive” in my reply-this originated from you. Patriarcal is Biblical. If you are a Christian woman, it is not a “cafeteria plan” for you to pick and chose from. Respect is the mutually opperative word. Compliments are not equals, they complete each other in a relationship. In a family.
There are no, “natural falacies” in my statement. Just facts, and only name calling only on your part. Not Lady-like. More like the “left”. Feminism is a very immature infantile philosophy.
“Natural order” and “traditional roles” are biblical in fact, as well practical. Your tone “reeks” of liberal, rebelious, non-biblical feminism. It’s not healthy nor attractive to any male to have to here a woman take that tone with them. They are wise to turn around and walk away from such a woman.
Is that allowed in your forum? That isn’t lady-like, Christian, nor ‘equal” type behaviors. These are the types of comments, coming from the other side, you would label ” a male chauvenist pig”. Why is it acceptable for women to do these things and speak like this to men? Is that your equality? Why do you hold in such distain male authority? It is the male who possesses traits of logic, reason, chivalry? You object to this? You think woman possess these things equally? Not so.
My comments were meant to be honest and sincere, as well as repectfull to all who would read them. Shame on you.
“Much as I hate to say it, there’s something at odds here…
“SHTF is not going to miraculously change the minds of million of women who rightfully think they deserve equality.”
I submit that it probably will for most women, depending on just how bad the S hits the F. Some women (you for instance) are capable of defending self and property. Some will pick up the needed habits and skills as the situation arises. The vast majority however will likely become, well… chattel.
…and it isn’t that women will ‘miraculously change their minds’, but that the world at large may well change it for them, and forcibly.
While a lot of guys will remain decent towards the female gender, a far too-large percentage will not. Unless our given damsel is willing to travel in a large and/or well-armed group, or latch onto a family/clan/town with sufficient strength, she’s pretty much ripe for the picking.
A man out on his own is only a target for what he may be carrying – nothing more. A woman out on her own is a target not only for what she may be carrying, but for what she is.
I am all for dating post SHTF….Not sure my wife will like it! LOL
Be Safe All!
OMG….I have two teen and one pre-teen daughters now. That in mind, I have all ready pre-dug numerous burial sites.
What a funny & fun topic Jane!
Personally I think things will be the same as they are now except with a bit less pretentiousness because most cannot or will not display their assets. The attraction of man to woman & vise versa is independent to world conditions, just look at the 3rd world environments.
Marriage bonds will displayed with a cubic zirconia if rich & a tattooed ring if poor.
As to the same sex thing – I won’t ask & please don’t tell, it just gives me the heebeejeebee’s. Stay in your cave and watch your Bareback Mountain movie … that’s the more appropriate title.
I do agree with your Dear Calamity Advice Column – guys will be forced to be gentlemen & that’s a great thing in my book.
Dear Calamity Advice Column…. I like it.
I can just see it now…
There’s a girl across the holler I’m sweet on, but she don’t know I exist. What do ah do?”
If it ain’t Saturday, take a bath & put some sweet smellin’ stuff on yo hair & part it in the middle. Don’t forget to wear shoes AND socks.
When you meet ‘er for the first time smile & if yor teeth are a bit yeller, wear a brown shirt. And by gum, don’t scratch yor ass in front of her!
Your set to go ~
I like the topic Calamity…… I think post SHTF after the smoke clears things will go on much as they have for years. If we continue to digress towards a more agrarian and les petro based society. I think you will see the role of man rise above the role of women. Personally I’m not for that I think fairness and equality between the sexes is the smartest course.
Its not always the case.
It will all be about value and need for both concerned. Under some circumstances the need for child bearing females of good health will far outweigh there physical limitations. 100 yrs ago the life expectancy of a woman was pretty short disease and child bearing took there toll. Men faired better health wise but suffered from a lack of marriagable women.
My daughters shoot straight and are fair hands at defending themselves
but take away the Equalizers and there best assets would be femine wiles
or run or tell Dad………… great topic
As long as there are people , there will be courtship . No matter how bad things got , its human nature to build again . When your at rock bottom , only place to go is UP ! and it will start all over again , community by community , area by area , region by region . The worst part for women will be right after TSHTF when all the scum think they are entitled to do unto others . Hopefully most of those will get HIV or be killed as time goes on . I read an article of an African tribe whose women had a very interesting device for rape prevention . As a man , it made me cringe .
Manors are something the US no longer values , those of us that have them and more importantly TEACH them , good for you !!!!!! another reason things are the way they are , unfortunately , what can you expect when you have children having children instead of keeping their legs closed . You can tell your society is deviant when grade schoolers know almost as much about sex as adults . very sad .
“Manors are (is) something the US no longer values” is correct that’s why there are so many in foreclosure. However, “manners” is merely on a temporary hiatus and like the Terminator, they WILL BE BACK!
men, when you go a courtin’ wear clean clothes. try to make sure that your beard is soft, (no 5 o’clock shadow) and your hands don’t feel like sandpaper. (getting out all the embedded dirt will be a plus) lack of B.O. is probaply a plus with most women.
… and do i even need to mention; brushing and flossing?
When I read this, my first thought was, “It’s going to be great to see young people actually ‘courting’ .” The idea of clan gatherings and church and community socials is appealing and refreshing.
I agree, with the loss of cheap transportation, travel will take a back seat and couples will probably come together from close areas rather than far away college meet-ups, etc.
As TR noted, there will be a period of ‘anything goes’ for some ‘men’- the scum we will need to eliminate post-haste. Too, as others noted, there will probably be a dispensing with age differences as is currently held, going back to a time when there was a low availability of women, I suppose. (I mention this because my father was 15 years senior to my mother, and my sisters think this was atrocious- but they lived in different times and life itself was different. Too, my sisters think it’s terrible that my Lady is 25 years younger than I.)
All in all, I think this is a topic worthy of much discussion and dissection between both men and women, of all ages, because it’s going to be very prevalent in the not-too-distant future, and, as all good ideas, should be understood before the need arises.
Thank you for bringing it up, Calamity.
With women lacking means of birth control and men without fear of paying child support women will have to decide if they want to be right all the time or have a husband and father to help provide for them and defend them.